Q. You’ve mentioned that from 1973 to 1977 were in the U.S. navy. Why did you enlist?
A. It was still the Vietnam era for us when I decided to join the Navy. My draft number wasn't especially worrisome, but I just thought I'd go in the navy before "they" called me into the army. I wanted to control my experience and also, I was looking for a way to get away from home. The service seemed a good venue, so I joined the Navy.
Q. Do you have any gay stories or experiences to recount from your Navy years?
A. During those years, I had to maintain a Top Secret Security Clearance and so had to be very careful about any gay sexual activity. This was made very clear to us from the get-go. Back in the early to mid 70s, the military policy towards gays was quite different than it is now. That whole "Don't Ask - Dont Tell" thing was non-existent. Back then it was: if you are found out to be homosexual, you will, without question, be dishonorably discharged. Period. I did have some gay experiences in the navy, but they were furtive and few. The few gay encounters that I had were stumbled upon -- happily, I might add! Always with guys that you just "knew" were gay by virtue of signals sent, body language, etc. The scary thing about it was, if you were busted, you'd be dishonorably discharged. I had one lesbian friend in the navy -- she got dishonorably discharged because she finally couldn't take the secrecy and let herself be found out. While I had very few gay encounters while in Washington DC, later, in Japan, I met a few navy guys who became confidants and regular sex partners. But again, very secretive, not really very romantic... I recently found via internet, one of my "buds" and we had a nice reunion by phone. Gosh, it had been nearly 30 years since our last contact. He was definitely someone I regret that I did not keep up with and pursue a committed relationship with. I think he wanted more than the secret rendezvous' but it just wasn't something I could promise because of my position on the base. He is my only regret in life -- that I let him fall to the wayside because of my fears.
Q. A moment ago, you mentioned “signals” and “body language” that gays send out. Did it ever happen to you that the “wrong” person picked up on these?
A. Only once, was I ever "called" on a stereotyped gay trait and it was when a background investigator (investigating me for my top secret security clearance) called me in and said he thought I had a lisp and talked like a homosexual. That really stunned me. You know what I told him? I said I'd just had some extensive dental work (which I did) and maybe he was mistaken. It was the most bizarre thing anyone ever said to me. Other than that, no, I never had anyone say anything to me about it. Interesting aside: My best friend -- still, to this day -- whom I met while in Japan -- (he's straight, by the way) -- told me years later after I'd come out to him, that he would have never ever thought I was gay. He had no clue.
Q. Did you ever have another gay man try to "out" you or make trouble for you?
A. Not in the Navy, but something close. When I was being investigated for my Top Secret Clearance, a friend of mine in Hawaii, whom I used to work with, contacted me because she thought I should know that someone had been around to ask about me and that one of our other co-workers -- who was gay, but we were not friends -- had told the navy investigator that if I wasn't gay he didn't know who was. The friend calling me was letting me know because she knew it could jeopardize my chances of getting the clearance I was seeking. This gay guy was doing this because I would never agree to sleep with him when we worked together. He just wanted to get back at me.
Q. Do you think that the fact that women were so influential in your life and that the men were more absent and distant – could that factor in to your being gay?
A. I don't really know how much my being gay is because of the fact that the women of our family were more dominant than the men. I honestly feel that being gay is a biological thing. I think that if it were otherwise, I'd probably be less masculine than I am. I don't know.
Duke in a Recent Pic with His Mom
Q. Is there perhaps something that a male figure in your life did that might have alienated you?
A. My 1st step-father, Dominic, was a wife-beater and a child-beater. What's interesting is, he never really took it out on my sister. It was always me or my mother. He was quite brutal with me. My mother finally got fed up with it after he was particularly hard on me one time and left him for good. As an example of the brutality: we lived in a house that had a swimming pool, and I remember, I believe I was about 8 years old -- I was in the pool playing and he jumped in and grabbed me and held me under water for an incredibly long time. I remember struggling and thinking that I was going to die. It seemed at the time he was trying to drown me. Both my mother and sister were in the house at the time and when he finally let me go, I went running from the pool, crying, and told my mom... I don't really remember her response to it, but I was really shaken up by it. I can remember it vividly. I think my grandmother did not like Dominic because of his harshness with me. I was after all her Pet! LOL. I'll never forget one time when I came home with a less than stellar report card -- he beat me and then rounded everyone up, my mother, my sister, grandmother, and they all went out to dinner leaving me at home alone.
Q. I’m curious to know if you ever officially came out to your parents. Do your father and mother know and did they find out directly from you?
A. I had very little contact with my father until after I was out of the Navy, so no, he didn't really talk about much of anything with me, let alone homosexuality. I never directly came out to him....he learned of my being gay by asking my sister if she thought I was. My sister knows me well enough to know that I wouldn't care if she told him if I were, so she told him. My sister told me she asked him if it was a problem for him and he said no, but that it's not something he would willing share with anyone. He and I have a fairly cordial relationship now, but we never, ever talk about my homosexuality. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me; he's never been a very big part of our lives so i don't really have any strong emotional feelings about being accepted by him one way or another. Regarding my mother, I think on some level she knew I was gay, but I came out "officially" when I met my 2nd partner, Howard (he's the one who just recently died)... She really liked him a lot. Still, it was something that was never talked about much, just accepted. That was in 1990. I'd been away from home from my Navy years until about 1988 so my life was pretty much a mystery to my mother. I didn't have any qualms about letting her know my sexual orientation. I've never really discussed my being gay with many others in my family -- it just never seems to be an issue for them, or for me. I can't help but think that if they don't know, then, well, they're blind...I am who I am, and live my life accordingly.
Q. Broaching a completely different subject, I’d like to learn about the island of Maui on which you live. Are there any gay enclaves there?
A. There are a few gay B&B's on the island. Surprisingly, for an island with the international status as Maui has, gay-related businesses are quite limited. To my knowledge, there aren't any full-time gay clubs where one can meet. I know of a few places in the city of Kihei, where a couple of bars have "gay night", but that's about it. I think the primary meeting place (and pretty well-known amongst gay travelers) is a place called "Little Beach". It is a secluded beach area on the south side of Maui (near Kihei) that is a clothing-optional beach. It's fairly well-established that one side of the beach is the gay side while the rest of the beach is pretty mixed. That, believe it or not, is the extent of what Maui has to offer gays.
Q. Tell me something about Hana, the area of Maui where you live and work? What’s going on there?
A. Over the years, I have had many gay travelers that come to Hana. Most folks incorporate either a day-trip to our area or at least one or two nights. We're VERY remote and isolated and the drive to get here is about 2 to 3 hours. Of course, there are folks who have read about Hana or who have been here before that exclusively make Hana their destination and will come here for up to a week. That's usually the maximum stay. We're so remote that it makes it difficult to access other areas of Maui, which some people definitely want, but for first-time visitors, one or two days here is about the max.
Waterfall Along the Road to Hana
Q. Would you recommend Maui to gay travelers?
A. As a place for gay travelers or gay honeymooners, my opinion regarding Maui is: If a couple wants to be alone and away from everything, then yes, Maui is a good destination. However, my experience is that most gay travelers want some kind of interaction with other gays. For me personally, it's not what I look for when I travel. I prefer a more complete cultural experience and if that includes opportunities to interact with other gays, great, but it's not something I seek out specifically.
Q. How tolerant is Maui of openly gay people? What happens if a guy is very obviously gay?
A. The level of tolerance towards gays here is moderate, I think. It is definitely not like San Francisco where one would feel uninhibited in public displays of affection. You really don't see it much here. Locals (i.e. Hawaiians/polynesians) seem fairly tolerant, although my experience is that real local gays are very closeted with their families. The exception (interestingly enough) is with local guys who are super-feminine. Their families seem to tolerate that. These are guys who display feminine traits from an early age and many of them transition into dressing as women; a few may even go as far as sex-change. Here in our little village we have a handful (maybe six?) well-known (and accepted) "Mahus". That's the Hawaiian word for them. I know of one "woman" here -- I remember when my folks first moved here in the early '70s, she was still a he, but dressed as a woman. She saved all of her money and went to Japan for a sex-change operation. Pretty amazing for a small town like this. What's great is that she seems to have been totally assimilated into the community as a woman and is often referred to as "Aunty Val". Hawaiians call everyone Uncle and Aunty.
Also interesting -- Samoans raise their tolerance to "Mahus" (there they are called "Fa'afafine" (which translates as "ways of the women") to a whole different level. Fa'afafine are considered a third sex. I think Margaret Mead wrote about them in her landmark anthropological studies back in the 1930s or 1940s. They are quite accepted in Samoa.
Coastal Scene Along the Road to Hana, SE Maui
Q. Since I first encountered you on the internet in 2007, you’ve made me aware that you’ve pursued a number of long-distance relationships online. Would you describe the most memorable among them?
A. Ah yes, the internet romances. I seem to have a penchant for international guys ... LOL.... The most intense and dramatic of these was with Paul from Chile. We met on Bear411, he messaged me and we began exchanging messages there and within days had moved on to MSN. We had daily contact for a few months when he announced that he wanted to come here. Despite some red flags that I chose to ignore (primarily the flag about our age difference -- he was too young for me!!! and also doubts about his financial standing), I went along with it and was actually quite excited about our potential. He seemed really serious and sincere, but finally, he was just after a sugar daddy. He did come here, as you may remember, and spent three months. The first week was okay but as the days wore on, I felt as if I suddenly had a teen-aged child on my hands. He was 39 years old but quite immature. Very self-centered. He had some nice qualities but they just weren't enough to sustain a meaningful relationship. He literally brought nothing but his good looks and amazing body to the relationship. I certainly learned my lesson on that one! Oh, and, truth be told, despite the hot bod and hot looks, he had a pretty low sex drive.
I’ve mentioned to you, my connection with the guy from Serbia. That was interesting but it ran it's course quickly. He was a very depressed person and I couldn't find a way to break through that fog via the internet. We communicate occasionally via email, but not so much as before. We never did meet in person. I often wonder if I might have been able to "reach" him and turn his inner light back on if we lived closer and had regular in person contact. Don't know.
One of the happiest internet experiences I've had is with two guys I met on Bear411 from San Diego. It started off being a sexually-charged exchange of messages -- which is really unusual for me in that I don't generally go for threesomes or more-somes. I'm a one-on-one kinda guy and very monogamous-minded. Nonetheless, we chatted and they were exciting...they actually came for a visit here and I got cold feet about pursuing anything sexual with them. Super nice guys....they were so kind and gentle about it saying it didn't matter. We have become VERY good friends and stay in touch. It ended up being a really nice visit. Very genuine and warm. I think they are still planning a return trip before the end of this month, not sure... reminds me I need to check with them.
I'm currently communicating with a really sweet guy who is living in Las Vegas. He's from Italy and has been living with his brother in Vegas for about 3 years. We have a very real connection -- talk regularly by Skype, but it seems an impossible situation. He's living in the US as an illegal-alien and so not sure what the future holds. It doesn't seem likely that he will get a green card any time soon because of his HIV status. Anyway, for now, it's fine between us. I enjoy talking with him and getting to know him. It's been about 8 months.
Waterfall Along the Road to Hana, SE Maui
Q. Perhaps, for the final part of our discussion, we could go into your most important gay long-term relationships?
A. I've had two longer relationships... the first occurred during my college years in South Carolina (1982 - 1986). I began the process of coming out of the closet during those years and went to my very first gay bar in Augusta, Georgia. It was a completely new experience for me and I was reveling in finally meeting like-minded people. I went to the bar somewhat regularly and after a couple of months met Wayne. He was a high school teacher and after "dating" for about a month, we started living together. Wayne lived a VERY closeted life and I think for him, making the decision to live together was a difficult thing. He insisted that we not live in the same town as his family or the school where he taught, which was okay with me. I think his being so paranoid about being "found out" was what doomed us. I was really starting to embrace who I was and did not want to regress. We stayed together about 3 years, continued to see each other for another year and then I moved back to Hawaii. That was in '87. We corresponded for a couple of months after I moved and I even went back to South Carolina to visit. It was the last time I would see him. He died a year later of liver failure. Wayne liked his cocktails and I think he was hitting it hard there towards the end.
My 2nd relationship was with a guy I met who travelled to Hana with an entourage of friends (mixed group, gay and straight) in 1990. I remember talking to him on the phone trying to set up an appropriate vacation rental for them and thought during those conversations that he sounded like a really nice guy. I eventually learned that the trip to Maui was made possible by an inheritance he had received from his late-lover, Tivvis. Tivvis insisted Howard use the money to take all of their friends on a big trip in his memory. So, they came to Hana. When Howard came into my office to check-in, I could tell there were sparks between us immediately. He was so interesting to talk to. As he left the office with his key, he paused at the door, turned around and asked "Would you like to come by the house later and join us all for a drink?" I accepted and that drink turned into dinner at the local hotel. Over the following week, Howard and I saw each other every day and I would say definitely fell in love during that week. He started staying with me at my house and..LOL.. every morning when I would return him to his friends, they'd be hooting' and teasing us.... it was very sweet. When the time came for them to move on to their next destination, which was the island of Hawaii, Howard invited me to come along. It was a very happy time and I was excited to be with him and all of these wonderful new friends. We truly became fast friends, all of us, and I still count them among my dearest friends. After the Hawaii vacation was over, Howard and I communicated every day. He made plans to return at Christmas (this was in 1990) and thus began our long-distance relationship. He would come for two weeks at Christmas and then again two-weeks in Summer. I usually went there once a year in the fall. In 1991, I announced to my mother that I would be moving to Denver to be with Howard and although she was sad about having me leave, I believe she was happy that I at last had someone in my life. So, off I went and stayed six months. I had to return to Maui in January of 1992 as my mother was having two knee-replacements done and I needed to be here to run the business. After her recovery, I returned to Denver and resumed life with Howard. It was very difficult for me to find meaningful work in Denver and after returning from my mother's surgery visit, I told Howard that it was ironic that I was more gainfully employed in little Hana than in big 'ole Denver. He agreed and we talked things over and both decided that it was better for me to return to Hana. It really pained me that Howard had to pay for most of our living expenses, that really brought me down. I didn't like being "that" dependent on him. During my 9 months living with Howard in Denver, I came to realize that I was headed into a "care-giver" relationship with him. Howard was a hypochondriac and I soon found that life was becoming less and less interesting. Seemed we never did very much. I was initially so excited about being near the mountains and exploring, hiking, etc... but we never did any of that. I guess it just took a few years for us to really "learn" each other. He was one of the most intellectually stimulating people I've ever met, but there just didn't seem to be enough balance in that alone. All of our mutual friends agreed with me and while we occasionally (me and the friends) would do nice outdoor things, for the most part my life in Denver was an indoor life. After I returned to Hana, I know I grew distant from Howard and he felt it. I tried to be honest with him and told him how I felt and that I needed more. He was devastated, I know. I'll never forget the finality of things when we were on the phone and he was asking about coming for a visit -- this would have been 1996 or 97... and I said that he was always welcome, but that our relationship, for me, had changed and I wanted to continue to be friends. He hung up on me and I never heard from him again until 7 years later, when he sent me a sweet note when he heard about the death of my friend Barbara from Montana. I started to receive Christmas cards from him after that and I was happy that things finally started to thaw. I've always missed our great conversations -- he truly was an incredibly brilliant man. And then, his health really started unraveling earlier this year and some months later passed away.
Aerial View of the Town of Hana
Q. Since we’ve just covered your two long-term relationships, I’d be interested to know your opinion of gay marriage.
A. My view on same-sex marriage is that I think government needs to detach itself from dictating what marriage is. To me, marriage is a personal circumstance and simply not open for judgement or debate from church or state. Period. Historically/biblically maybe it was defined as between a man and a woman, but times change, society changes. It should be equal rights across the board.
Q. Would you ever consider marrying another guy?
A. Yes. Absolutely. But you know, David-Paul, as life marches on for me, I'm starting to realize that maybe my lot in life is to be single. It's not that I have any issues with commitment -- I'd love to have a committed, monogamous relationship, but they seem to have alluded me. And, I'm actually quite content. I believe there are some big changes on the horizon for me. I look back on my life and see that I've had distinct eras where I seem to have reinvented myself periodically, if you will. I feel this “Hana-Era” coming to a gradual close and a move to yet another reninvention is looming on the horizon...LOL. I honestly never thought that I'd be thinking along those lines at this age! But I find that I'm ready for it and intend to embrace and welcome whatever the universe has in store for me.
